Interesting little debate...

(Updated)

... in the Samoa Observer between sweet az and Me  ... with sidebuster Lena.

Note:  Despite the sporadic trite and acrimonious accusations and taunting used in the debate, which sometimes are employed as strategy for intimidation, the crux (of the debate) centers on perhaps a common misconception on the role and influence of parents - or guardians for that matter - on their children. And though this is a brief exchange, it certainly stimulates and addresses some important points on a subject that Samoans, generally, feel strongly about through a viewpoint similar to that advanced by sweet az, while countered and refuted by Me.

Background:  Me posted and suggested a funny caption - meant to be a joke - for the picture of the PM (Pale Mia ...hahaaa....ok, Prime Minister) and the owners of a fitness business just opened in Samoa. Little did Me know that it was the beginning of a mini debate, started by sweet az’s (SA) pretentious comments:
=======================
sweet az (SA):
I am not one to hold back on a good debate, but I don't see how calling the PM names on here is relevant. Attack the policies YES but to attack his personal appearance and call him names is so rude and disrespectful. Just shows what kind of people raised you.

Me:
Wooh woooh ... easy there sweet az kisser.  [My comment] was a joke!

Having read and analyzed your comments in these pages, there seems to be a pattern of arrogance, pretentiousness , pontification, pride, etc. running through your infantile veins and embryonic neurons. Moreover, your positions and foolhardy leanings and seeming support for the HRPP and the present government are transparently biased indicative of someone who is either a beneficiary and recipient of nepotistic favors and practices (re: your corruption perspectives) - or a card carrying sucker and fawner of the PM and gang.

Well let me help you with your “vastiness”. First, avoid the accusation and blame of one’s parents and/or guardians for his/her faults. More often than not, it’s absurd and inanely foolish.

On the other hand, when you make such an accusation and superficial connection, you’re portraying yourself as a perfect person - one without any flaws/faults. Well let me ask you: “Are you that kind of person - perfect and inculpable? Take some time to digest that, then stop being naive and faafiapoko.

By the way, you’ve called others out for their grammatical and linguistic mistakes and yet you can’t see your own as in this sentence in one of your comments: “I can't be the only one whose annoyed with her gibberish.” That should be “who’s/who is”.

As Pekelo said: Aua le laga laga ma’a aua e ‘ai ai oe e le povi, ok?  Ia fa la’ia!

SA:
Oh dear. In layman’s terms - I have ruffled the feathers on your tutu. Hehe

“First, avoid the accusation and blame of one’s parents and/or guardians for his/her faults. More often than not, it’s absurd and inanely foolish”. The association is probably more accurate than not”.

It is fair to say that ALL of us are a reflection of our parents/upbringing. The family home is where it starts and where we learn core values and ethics – one of them being that as a Samoan we are taught to respect elders, regardless of position. It is what separates us from other cultures.

I’m guessing that the link doesn’t seem so absurd now does it?

Trying to impress the masses with attempts to flex intelligence and pretend to know words you never knew existed. For instance – I believe you meant to say pontificating? A little solecistic maybe? Or when starting a new sentence, does predictive text not come with capital letters? Not an Einstein skill, but useful for when you’re trying to “float like a butterfly and sting like bee” - and it becomes an epic fail.

Being an anonymous “card carrying sucker and fawner” might prove to be a difficult task when I decide to cash in on favors from the PM. It might be an idea for me to start using my real name then and not an alias. lol

Me:
Part I
Az, I think you are diving into this now with the so-called “eyes wide shut” aye? Well, like you I will “not hold back on a good debate.”

With your alias as “sweet az kisser”, for now, I’ll therefore try to “kiss” (look it up) this subject.

Your claim, in a nutshell, is to “blame” the parents/guardians for a child’s upbringing - decorum and wrongdoing alike. On the surface you may have a point. On the more profound/philosophical level, which is where I - obviously not you - operate, the concept is still narrow and shallow.
Case in point: Let me use your hero as an example. It is well known that the PM can sometimes be rude and disrespectful using words that violate the ava fatafata and va fealoa’i. Therefore, according to your “ill-logic” and inept reasoning, such improprieties by the PM are a “reflection of [his] parents/upbringing” - still “fair to say?” You tell that to the PM and he’ll slap your face, if not fire you on the spot. Does the link seem more absurd now?

Part II
Moreover, when you narrowmindedly subscribe to such a belief, you will begin to tread on slippery slopes especially with principles of free will/ individual choices and personal responsibility and accountability. Ooops, sorry, I promised to “keep it simple,” so I will stop here on this one. When you acquire more learning, hopefully, you will understand. Let me suggest however for you to go down to the justice courts sometimes and they will enlighten you on these issues.

pontificate/pontificating/pontification
Should I take grammar or solecistic advice from someone who does not know the difference between “whose” and “who’s”? I don’t think so. So save your grammar lessons for the tribe. I can almost see your children becoming poor grammarians too (re: parents/upbringing) lol. By the way, show me where “pontification” is not right/proper and I’ll show you the contrary. Otherwise, stop the insidious guesswork. It’s futile at this point for you to make some preemptive and corrective measures after some pathetic and glaring disclosures of your lack of grammar and cognitive skills.  Aea?

Part III
Az far az your sweet az aliaz goez, keep it. Don’t start using your real name - you may regret it and may cause you more harm than help. I must say however that it’s already shown in your writing. I can start peeling off your mask now. Let me start with TTT. Hahahaaaa! I’ll reveal more clues as we continue with this debate.

And speaking of [Muhammad] Ali’s butterfly/bee catchphrase - that you so eloquently quote, alongside Einstein - I don’t want any fusu kagi, ok? You can fusu pi’i but not fusu kagi, even when the instructive sting hurts.

SA:
Need a hug? I can see we might have a crisis on our hands as your blood pressure looks like its hit the roof. Let’s set aside the spelling and grammar errors you still haven’t fixed up and move right along. haha

Yes, points taken. The PM has on some occasions expressed views which isn’t to everyone’s palate and sometimes does not address Matais by their proper names. However - if you are anything to go by, I can imagine how the PM could get to that point.

From my own observations, the man is coming from a different time and his no-nonsense approach doesn’t always go down well – but still, he has been chosen by the people for the people and is the leader of our nation – not a Father. Unlike your approach which indicates strong symptoms of bipolar disorder.

Besides, when you learn that $100’000 AU plus was gifted to the PM by Samoans when he last made a visit to Sydney, it has to make one wonder why people aren’t donating their money to their families in Samoa (who I suspect might need it more) or even more puzzling - why people are donating money to a PM who they apparently hate?
Follow the money trail – it will show you where people’s priorities lie.
Last but not least, yes, maybe your upbringing was surface deep which might explain why you have forgotten where you come from but it’s not too late - we are here for you...lol
Manuia lava le aso

Me:
E pei a e sili ona ou faa-Samoa atu sweet az. Sa ou faapea e faasolo ina loloto ma mamao le faautautaga a lau susuga, ae leai. Silasila fo’i, o lea ua felavasa’i, fete’ena’i ma foliga mai ua faaluafesasi e lau susuga le mataupu.

Sa ou faaaogaina le Palemia e avea na o se faata’ita’iga (example) o le mataupu faavae (principle) lea na ta talanoaina e faapea a leaga fanau e tatau lava ona tu’ua’iina, pona’ia ma pa’u le leaga i matua. Ae sau lau tali ua e faasaga e tete’e ma puipui (defend) le Palemia ma ana filifiliga i nisi o ana faatinoga tau i le pulega o le malo.

E ta’u le sese ma le faaletonu lea o le equivocation/evasion/hedging [or red herring]. Ua e taumafai e te ‘alo mai i le mataupu ‘autu ma taumafai e tata’i le talanoaga/felafolafoa’iga i se isi mata’upu ‘ese – usually to a subject you are more comfortable debating hence avoiding vulnerability and defeat. That’s pathetic, to say the least.

Finally, I have not forgotten where I’m from. (re: You can take the man out of the country but you cannot take the country out of the man.)  E te nofo i Samoa ma e taugapa o oe o le Samoa, ae oute iloaina e fai a si faaletonu ma le mapeva o lau faa-Samoa, so stop trying to cordon off the country to those of us abroad. O lea foi e fai la matou tautua 'aitaumalele - ia ma fesoasoani atu i lou vaivai...lol.

Lena (sidebuster):
....and to the 2 (Me and sweet az) that are carrying on, seriously you want to make this about yourselves? whos right and who's wrong? you both look like idiots who just need to swallow your pride and just face the fact you were both wrong name calling, correct english grammas bla bla bla in the end you get nothing out of this but just a tad despicable, replusive ... it was amusing at first to see you go back and fourth but I just realised I wasted 5 minutes of my dear time..haha to read that rubbish

SA
Lena, if it's got people thinking - then we've done our job. And yes, I agree - the sheman down there is quite ridiculous! As for you, what a terrible writer! :) Manuia le aso he-man!

Me:
Lena, I'm glad you are part of the conversation so you can learn something too. Based on your writing skills (actually the lack thereof)and comments, you need more learning. For example, when you said you have wasted 5 minutes of your time, you need to understand that it was your choice - and certainly a deliberate one - to read the debate comments. You were not compelled to read. So blame yourself - not us or anyone else - for wasting your time. Ua e malamalama? (Do you understand?). Fa loa!

Lena:
Me...Seriously? you want to be known on here as the most profficient[sic] one to post up comments where you come across being the most intelligent one who has the writting[sic] skills of an English proffesor[sic]? Its just comments! like who cares...

SA (to Me):
Faafetai tele lava ia oe le tuagane ua maua le tatou mafutaga, ma le avanoa e talatalanoa ai I luga ole upegatafailagi (internet). hehe But it looks like we're STILL going to agree to disagree. :)

Me:
Lena: I made a comment/joke (re: first comment) and then sweet az attacked me. Even worst - and impudent - was attributing my seeming disrespect to those who raised me (parents/family) and my upbringing. And so my subsequent comments were responsive in nature. Part of being an effective debater is the ability to focus and articulate (in writing, in this case) ideas and points of argument - and not “to be known as the most proffcient [sic] ...[and] most intelligent....” Also, I am neither a professor nor a proffesor - whatever that is. Incidentally, try not to “sidebust” (osovale) unless you know you have something worthwhile to offer expressed in an effective and intelligent way, and not with pitiful spelling mistakes like profficient, writting and proffesor. Have you been infected with a “double trouble” virus? LOL!

Sweet az:  Ia ta faia ia faapea. I hope you don’t swear, misbehave or do anything bad or offensive because you know who will be blamed for your improprieties - your mada and fada, brada and sistrada ia ma le aiga akoa uma lava. Lastly, as a point of emphasis, my parents/family - like most if not all parents/families - taught and instilled in me values such as respect, love, honor, dignity, etc., but occasionally I deviate and step out of line. Such deviations are a result of my own choices, not because of my parents and/or upbringing. Soifua ia!

Meanwhile SA still doesn’t want to quit so he posts this, apparently trying to recruit Lena for a tag team:

SA:
Lena - loko kele. [Me's] bark is worse than his bite. Good luck!

Me:
Exactly what I warned you about, sweet az, not to fusu kagi (revilement)- I know your type.

And speaking of bark, you did start off barking real loud and then end up with your tail between your legs.  lol... Now you're just standing off to the side crying and reviling, cheering Lena on as a surrogate. Kalofa e! Ia uma loa, solo ou maka. LOL!  I'll be gentle next time.

UPDATE (cont'd):

SA:
hahaha Let's avoid hitting under the belt shall we. I don't side with anyone, I feel SORRY for anyone who has to deal with you.
I walked off with my tail between my legs? How when you didn't win. I let you think you did. There's a big difference.:)

(Apparently, SA still wants to have the last say/word, a strategy that some debaters equate with “winning” and so Me grants it to him - and “lets [him] think [he] did” - at the actual site.  But Me wants to say these closing comments here):

Me:
SA, it’s “below the belt”, not “under” the belt, and as you said, "There’s a big difference. :)"

How, when [I] didn’t win?

Look, based on the gist of the debate (blaming parents for their children’s upbringing - especially roguery and misconduct), you failed to defend and articulate your position effectively and intelligently. Also, how do you explain good and great kids from bad parents/families/guardians? There are such kids, aren’t there?  So you lost there.
With grammar - you lost there too. You did not address/answer the pontification issue. Oh, and here’s another one of your grammar flubs (agreement):
“The PM has on some occasions expressed views which isn’t to everyone’s palate ....”

Finally, I hate to belabor the boxing metaphor but you seem to always want to push it (re: “under the belt” comment). Well, time to get the final tally from the readers' scorecards, which is the closest thing to a decision - and a fair one I might add, considering the anonymity involved.

Thumbs Down:

SA: 26

Me: 3 

Thumbs Up:

SA: 9

Me: 37

(Feb 27 totals)