Conversation Still Continues ...

...another response by LM along with my reply consisting of a mixture of humorous, serious and lighthearted comments.

LM:

Always a great scholar....

LV:

Thanks! (lol)

LM:

You're so deep in that academic bs [bachelor of science?] you've basically forgotten that you're doing nothing but disrespecting the honour of your own forefathers. 

LV:

Sorry for being “so deep” for you bro/sister. Actually no disrespect here, believe me.  I love and cherish my culture and heritage, hence our forefathers.  Conversely, if you’re really serious and adamant about flaunting your honor/respect for our forefathers, then you should be well-informed about a particular “prophecy” involving Malietoa when he was told to “tali i lagi [sona] malo”.  Basically “to look to the heavens for a form of government”. That was basically referring to the coming of the Christian missionaries who represent the institution you have been attacking and assailing.  That’s a good example of what I mean by being open-minded - and being wise and learned.  What that very “prophecy” means is that the path of your so-called  “conniving imperialist invaders” will eventually cross with our path as Samoans.  And therefore, who we are today and the type of society we have are results of some type of plan - not happenstance. In other words, you need to understand that in the grand scheme of things, we were not meant to live in complete isolation.That being said, however, we still need to understand how to separate the message from the messengers.   Incidentally, your worldview seems very narrow and shallow - not steep and deep.

LM:

You haven't presented anything new as well, this is just typical Victorian era writing style, full of grandiosity and downright xenophobic and condescending. If you honestly have an open mind then you would probably see things different, so far you're just following the crowd like a typical freshman. 

LV:

Well how about that new thing above (re: Malietoa), if you haven’t deduced a lot of other new things I’ve already presented?  By the way, me, xenophobic?  Let’s see, xenophobia is a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries. So now you know who the xenophobic one is.  And while you’re the xenophobe, doing your xenophobic thing, I’m wowing - not following - the crowd, because I’m fresh! ... Man! ..hahaa.

LM:

You need to understand that I'm exercising "va fealoa'i" by defending the honour of our forefathers which you blissfully called "savages", is that your version of "perspective" or shall we call that 'ignorant'? The difference between you and me then is that I am prepared to see things from a different perspective while you're more than happy to follow century old prejudices which have no more credibility in this modern era.

LV:

Enough of your “va fealoa’i” fixation. As I said “va fealoa’i” is universal except for those who live the law of the jungle - survival of the fittest. If you’re really able to “see things from a different perspective”, as you said, then it’s time you wake up and see/smell the new iphone, the jet fuel, the keyboard you’re using to type your superficial responses, etc. Oh, did you really say the word “modern era”? Do you believe in such a thing? What constitutes a “modern era” for you?  You don’t have to answer that or you’ll experience an epiphany and be transposed into it (modern era).  And here I was thinking that  you were still living on Nuusafe’e as a savage and hermit.  Welcome to the modern era anyhow!

LM:

For the record, nobody is accusing or vilifying anyone, what I’ve presented are 'facts' something you should consider when writing your next academic essay. 

LV

And for the record too, I found this in your comments: “our forefathers suffered terribly from deceptions and were never prepared for the subtle destruction of our way of life by the conniving imperialist invaders.”  That is an accusation and vilification.  For your information, vilification is when you speak ill of, or slander someone.  And that’s a fact.  Speaking of facts, you seem to have this obsession with “facts”.  Well let me help you out on that. Facts, as a matter of fact, can be very useful, but can also be harmful.  For example, there are some facts about you that would help you and those that would also hurt you.  A double-edged sword, if you will. Yes, some of the “facts” you presented have actually come back to bite you in your facthive  As for the academic essay, I’ve abandoned that; I’ve come down a few notches to your level so that you can/will understand. And that’s a fact! (grin). 

LM:

I'm glad that you have time to research the meaning of "utopia", in my opinion the only place you will find perfection or utopia can only be Heaven. Well the only person that associated "va fealoa'i" and "utopia" is you, I see no evidence of anybody else making that mistake. So which village and itumalo was your lauded “Cleisthenes” from? Ahh I see, he’s a Greek philosopher meddling in other people’s business.

LV:

Yes it was a major research on the meaning of “utopia” - it took me a nanosecond. Just so you know, I had to quote the source for academic reasons, otherwise it’s intuition for me. For your benefit, Cleisthenes is to Democracy as Sir Thomas More is to Utopia.

Utopia and Va Fealoa’i (Mutual Respect) - I still can’t believe you would reject something that is understood using common sense, at the very least.  This goes to reveal a lot about your need of much learning, brother/sister.  Well, since you asked, let me give just a couple of quotes for evidence:

“According to Brennan, the five principles which he believes are necessary to form an ideal utopian society include voluntary community, mutual respect, reciprocity, social-justice and beneficence....”

“Utopia is a place where ... systems nurture the mutual respect and admiration of each other....”

Need more evidence? There’s thousands of such online, whether referring to More’s “Utopia” or experiments on creating a utopia. Why do I have a feeling that you do not quite understand what a “utopia” is?  I kahn’t buuhleaaave it!

LM

In order to move forward we need to acknowledge the past and accept the facts. Our forefathers were no scholars so they were duped into accepting democracy, I don’t know about you but that’s injustice if you ask me.

LV:

Our forefathers were duped?  No scholars? Really?  Do you know what you’re saying? You’re actually saying our forefathers, those who accepted our modern day (yes, modern, dude) government and independence, are not smart. You have just maligned, insulted and disrespected the members of the 1960 Constitutional Convention and all the founding fathers of our present form of government. Now you’re guilty of the very thing of which you accused me - disrespecting our forefathers.  It’s not injustice, but foresight on the part of the forefathers accepting democracy, and it’s ignorance on yours for saying they were duped. 

LM:

For your information, Fa’asamoa gave the Samoans of old equal opportunities and there were no rich or poor people, how about that foreign system you gleefully advocate? 

LV:

And for your information, you just told an egregious lie. 

Why is it that women are just now being given “equal opportunities”?  Maybe because they never had them to begin with?  And why was/is there a huge discrepancy in the ratio of male matais versus female ones?  Maybe because of the “not so equal opportunities” of the past?

Why was it that only matai were able to vote? Etc., etc., etc. Democracy is the key that opened the door to these opportunities, I guess. 

LM:

You made an assumption about an interrelationship between state and government, yet you could not really explain the role of church in Democracy. 

LV: 

Simple. The church’s role in a democracy is to be the source, provider and sponsor of morality.  And you don’t know that?  Anyway, it’s great conversing with you my friend. If I were you I would not respond to this, or you would be digging a deeper hole for yourself. 

Manuia le Tausaga Fou!